First: It’s a site dedicated to electric vehicle promotion. So it might be a tiny bit biased.
Second: Their criteria was for their claim was, “13 percent of the cases with starting difficulties are electric cars”. Well, golly gosh gee, how surprising that an electric car would be easier to start in cold weather, since as long as you have any juice left in your battery, it’s gonna go. You don’t have problems like diesel fuel gelling, or oil turning into molasses. (If it gets cold enough, your battery might freeze solid, and then you have real problems.)
Finally: “[…] electric vehicles are involved in roughly 21% of all its cases so far in 2024” Given that Norway is roughly 25% electric vehicles–they don’t give the exact percentage in the article–that’s… Pretty much in line with overall percentages. It might even be high, given that EVs are more likely to be new than ICE vehicles.
If we’re going to do cars–and I don’t think that there’s a reasonable alternative that can be brought to bear in a reasonable time–then I’m all for electric. But this isn’t a great way to promote them.
Your second point is basically agreeing that electric cars are better at starting in the cold, where all you’re doing is explaining why. Maybe I missed what your second point of disagreement was.
Because the problem with ev is that the battery drains charge faster in the cold, charges slower in the cold, and struggles to charge at all if its too cold.
So if you have juice, starting is fine. But the cold problems for ev is that the cold is functionally drinking your gas for you, not that the engine cant turn over.
Fair points. I heard somewhere (probably here) that they were working on sodium solid state batteries or something. I look forward to new developments.
There’s been “new” battery technology in the works since we starting using lithium ion and nothing so far has come anywhere near close enough to replace it. Sodium just like all the other “exciting” failed ideas in the past decade isn’t gonna go anywhere either.
Sodium batteries on the infrastructure level would work wonderfully but you’ll never see them in your phone or even a car. The energy density just is shit. There would need to be some unexpected advance in the technology to gain ~50% energy density just to meet lower end lithium ion.
But really electric cars aren’t the future anyway what we need to invest in is public transportation. Electric busses, trains, trams, hell why not self driving scooters that’s way more practical than a whole ass car.
not that the engine cant turn over.
Funny you use this phrase, when the actual action of “turning over” isn’t something electric vehicles can even do :D
Windows dont roll down either, phones dont ring, and that weird square for my save icon means nothing to me.
Linguistic artifacts are weird
Zing!
I love this reply.
I think your second point is the point of the article, as much hate as electric cars are getting from some hick mechanics - they have a shit load less moving parts and so will generally be more reliable
The problem–aside from the god-awful build quality of Tesla in particular–has usually been software. Too much shit being done by a single central system. Yes, they should be much simpler. But instead they’ve been made much more complex.
Oh god yeah idek if a cooperation could ever properly build a car in this day, bit the raw concept should be better (Tesla’s don’t even have lidar cause elon doesnt believe in it lmao)
That, and it’s hard to record customers with LIDAR.
To be fair, this data doesn’t adjust for the age of the vehicles. Older gas-powered cars fail at a higher rate than the new ones and electric vehicles are obviously much more recent on average.
Duh.
Everyone is arguing about how they should fuel their cars, but I just want to see more electric powered transit.
For 90% of driving, EVs are great in the winter. Even if it only had 100mi range, and it’s so cold that it loses 40% of that, it’s still better. You can get to work, do errands, and make it home to charge just fine.
Its going to warm up the cabin faster than an ICE. Not only that, but if you know when you’re going to leave, you can set them to warm up ahead of time while still attached to the charger. You’ll pop right in to a toasty warm cabin. Once you have that, you don’t want to go back.
If the positions were swapped and ICE was a new thing, people would be writing op-eds about how cold they are for most of the drive to work.
TBF you can turn on an ICE car and let it warm up a bit before you drive it. Some ICE cars also allow you to remotely pre-start or there are after market options so you can use an app to do exactly that. Hell, Russian far east they simply leave the car on for the cold months.
It’s just that it’s incredibly wasteful/polluting.
It’s not good for the car, either. Cars aren’t meant to idle; cars are made to have all fluids moving & the car rolling down the road.
I treat my car to a gentle warm-up when it’s cold outside; I start the car & start driving, but only 20-30 mph for the first 5-8 minutes. All the components of the car are gently being used, are slowly warming up, together. I think my car runs better for it.
IIRC you can fit an ICE vehicle with an electric engine block heater which will use mains electricity to heat the water and circulate it through the engine. So you run an extension cord out to your car, leave it plugged in and turn it on half an hour before you leave.
Some ICE cars also allow you to remotely pre-start
But you cannot do that in the garage (unless you like huffing exhaust fumes).
You can’t open a garage door remotely? I can.
That ain’t getting me to town for groceries at that rate.
I wanted to buy an EV, but after doing a serious evaluation of where I live and what I need to drive for distances and road conditions plus the temperatures I need it to work in, a pure EV is a no go for me. I could get by with a hybrid most of the time. But winter time road conditions can make it pretty iffy for winter and spring and uncomfortable number of times to make even that choice dicey.
The whole thing about them losing range in the cold isn’t even really true unless you can’t precondition the battery. Which might be the case for people who don’t charge at home, but at the very least it’s a statement which requires qualification.
This is just plain wrong.
We have two EV’s in Norway (cold as fuck at times) and there is no way to manage the same range in winter as in summer.
Sure you can mitigate some of it by preheating both the cabin and the battery, but the heater working harder to maintain the temperature when it’s cold outside and the added friction of driving on snow is always going to be thereI wholeheartedly disagree with this. I have a Model 3 and use it as my daily driver but have also done at least 4 cross country trips, two of which were in summer, one in spring, and one in winter.
For daily driving I can absolutely tell a difference in my range in the winter time and I do have a charger at home and car set to precondition. Preconditioning does make a big difference but it doesn’t completely offset the cold. Furthermore when it’s time to drive home from work I either have to drive on a cold battery or try to precondition without a charger.
During the recent cold snap (single digit Fahrenheit temps) I did an experiment with this where I started trying to precondition two hours before I left work. I just wanted to see how much battery it would take to precondition and ultimately test if that would be better than driving home cold. After two hours the battery was still not preconditioned sufficiently and I had used 20% of my battery. I would definitely have been better to just drive on a cold battery.
On long distance drives I have also found that the range suffers noticeably during winter weather. On my cross country winter trip it seemed like had about 15-20% less range between charges. And since I was driving all day and supercharging, the battery was fully conditioned the whole time. Didn’t prevent decreased range in the cold though.
The issue is you have a Tesla
Bullshit.
Tesla forums and my own experience call bullshit on this.
The 12v battery of my own M3 died less than 3 years in from sale in moderate to low cold temps in Canada (Only like -30c max)
Teslas are not the only EVs. They’re also not the best EVs.
it’s because teslas are garbage cars made by californian techbros for californian techbros, not because EVs have more trouble in colder climates
have affected the chargers themselves rather than the vehicles, according to local sources.
I can’t find any news that confirm that?
It was partially a failure in the charging networks to plan, and also rideshares where people were unfamiliar with EVs not knowing how to plan.
My mum’s 2019 Toyota Yaris has to have its engine run every few days or the battery dies from just sitting on the driveway. It could be a faulty car battery but considering this car isn’t even that old and has barely driven 30k miles, it’s not doing so great. I discovered yesterday that my EV charges better after I’ve driven it around and the battery’s warmed up a bit. The car goes a bit haywire when you cold start so it seems like it needs some prep time before a drive.
Yes it does. You car (almost all EVs) slowly precondition the battery while driving. Many newer cars optimize the battery temperature when you add a charger to your navigation to have the optimal temperature once you reach it. If you know you need to rapid charge and the drive is short, it’s usually a good idea to add it to your navigation as the car will then maximize the heating/cooling before you get there, whereas with normal driving it would do this slowly to minimize drain.
I had to rapid charge with a frozen battery once. Not a fun experience.
👌👍
Never once in 25 years of living in northern Maine have I had an ICE engine not start in the cold. Fuck I can’t remember even diesel engines falling because of glow plugs.
Yet on the first 0 day I can recall in a few years I have three friends stuck.
I’ll believe this shit when I see some actual data that isn’t a random company in Norway.
Well, frankly, Northern Maine isn’t very much north and not enough inland to get the extremes?
Most of Scandinavia has been below -15F for a good part of the new year and being relatively dense (for Scandinavia) in EV coverage I’d say Norway is the best example of EV very cold weather performance.
We’ve had this same “debate” here as well with ice-owners lamenting the perceived loss of range and EV-owners responding “I know, don’t care. Always works, always warm and always topped up”.
I’ve lived in Minnesota for decades and I’ve never had an ICE not start in the winter.
That said, the cold weather performance isn’t enough to stop me from getting an EV. The same general rules apply for all vehicles in cold weather climates, which is to always have an emergency kit just in case.
There was a time though when I commuted 35 miles one way to work and the charging parking spots were always full when I got there. Range loss would worry me a bit there but in that case I’d buy a hybrid and plan for full EV on the next go round.
I live in Chicago and both my relatively new cars wouldn’t start without a jump last week…
Sorry to hear that! You might benefit from a battery tender or one of those jump starter devices like the Halo.
I had to jump my mother in law last week and we might get her one as a birthday present. Her situation wasn’t directly cold related though, her negative terminal was super corroded. Ended up needing a battery and the terminal cable replaced.
Really, never?
AFAIK Minnesota does get proper winter cold, so it’s just a bit surprising.I’ve had both petrol and diesel cars not start on me when it’s cold enough.
Diesel probably didn’t want to go because of old glow plugs and on the petrol I had somehow managed to get a bit of water in the tank that froze in the line.Never. I have had some hard starts when I’ve owned older cars but I’ve never had it not start.
My biggest issue was actually my first car with the headlights. It didn’t chime to remind you they were on and those didn’t turn off automatically. I had to tape a reminder to turn them off on the steering wheel because I killed the battery a couple times.
Still, winter performance wouldn’t stop me from getting an EV. It’s probably be a bonus because when it’s super cold out who wants to go anywhere? Good excuse to stay home.
