Do you mean including the Palestinians held hostage in Israeli military prisons being physically, psychologically, and sexually tortured after being “arrested” on false or no charges?
Because there’s literally hundreds of times as many of THOSE hostages than Israeli ones.
Also, you’re BEYOND gullible if I think Israel won’t continue murdering Palestinian civilians after they’ve gotten the hostages. That’s not what it’s about.
Murdering or driving away every single Gazan so they can steal more land has always been the purpose. October 7th and the hostages are just convenient excuses for them to commit the war crimes they already wanted to.
I obviously meant from the perspective of the genocidal apartheid regime, not myself.
The October 7th attacks and hostage taking were beyond atrocious and my heart goes out to the families of the victims of both. The only reason I didn’t say so was because it goes without saying.
They’re not the REAL reason that the Israeli apartheid regime is still committing crimes against humanity on a daily basis 10 months later, though.
That’s not the presumption. The presumption is if the hostages are all released it vastly reduces Israeli excuses and support which would reduce civilian casualties to a level that at least is no longer existential.
if the hostages are all released it vastly reduces Israeli excuses
They’ll just come up with new ones. Netanyahu is already talking about “finishing the job” more than about the hostages.
and support
Israelis are literally blockading military bases to protect soldiers credibly accused of torture-raping Palestinian hostages. They may well care about the Israeli hostages, unlike the government, but they support the genocide and as a rule don’t consider Palestinians human.
which would reduce civilian casualties to a level that at least is no longer existential.
Nope. There’s zero chance of that happening without a regime change and arrests of some of the key figures in the fascist Israeli government coalition. ZERO.
They are doing that because to some extent they have a sympathetic excuse: They are rescuing hostages.
Releasing all hostages is the first step to removing all (I should have spelt this out explicitly the first time) external support. It would be difficult for even far right Republicans to (adequately) justify supporting continued bombing of even proven Hamas strongholds amongst civilian population if there were no immediate justification for doing so.
Hell, if Hamas released all the hostages and flat out turned in the leaders with ICC warrants pleading with the UN for humanitarian and justice relief it would be extremely difficult for a Biden, let alone Harris government to rationalize vetoing UN intercession to stop the hostilities completely and arrest the indicted Israelis.
From my perspective, this holding on to the injustices as an excuse to unnecessarily perpetuate atrocities is just as responsible for continuing this shit show as the person pushing the launch button. At some point you have to let it go or this continues on forever, or to a grim end no decent human being wants.
The problem here is that this “if” is never going to happen. Israel has killed many of these hostages in their indiscriminate attacks against Gaza, and the bodies will never be recovered.
If you’re using this “if” as the foundation of continuing to wage war, all you have is an excuse for a forever war.
The hostages are dead. Most were probably killed by the IDF. They are an excuse to commit to a campaign of extermination.
Isreal was indiscriminately bombing and taking land before October 7th, all they are just more active now. The violence will only stop if Isreal gives back all the land and gives Palestinians full autonomy. Hamas are murderous assholes, but they weren’t created in a vacuum. In fact Hamas is directly supported and funded by the IDF so the only true victims in this conflict are the Palestinians civilians and the non zionest Israelis
The Nazis justified their attempt to exterminate the Jews by claiming that they were only defending themselves against Jewish plans to destroy Germany and its population.
The Israelis justify their attempts to exterminate the Palestinians by claiming that they were only defending hostages from harm, and rescuing them from their captors, while bombing Gaza so severely that many hostage bodies will never be recovered, and may have already been found unrecognizable and dumped in a mass graves by IDF soldiers following various civilian massacres taking place on a regular basis.
You understand this though. You just clearly seem to support it…
Hey I have an idea. How about all hostages get freed so civilian lives aren’t imperilled.
Do you mean including the Palestinians held hostage in Israeli military prisons being physically, psychologically, and sexually tortured after being “arrested” on false or no charges?
Because there’s literally hundreds of times as many of THOSE hostages than Israeli ones.
Also, you’re BEYOND gullible if I think Israel won’t continue murdering Palestinian civilians after they’ve gotten the hostages. That’s not what it’s about.
Murdering or driving away every single Gazan so they can steal more land has always been the purpose. October 7th and the hostages are just convenient excuses for them to commit the war crimes they already wanted to.
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I obviously meant from the perspective of the genocidal apartheid regime, not myself.
The October 7th attacks and hostage taking were beyond atrocious and my heart goes out to the families of the victims of both. The only reason I didn’t say so was because it goes without saying.
They’re not the REAL reason that the Israeli apartheid regime is still committing crimes against humanity on a daily basis 10 months later, though.
So we’re in agreement then. Thank you for toning it down.
I will point out that even saying doesn’t help. I said ‘all’ hostages and am still getting presumptive hate from others.
Probably because of your own ridiculous presumption that Israel wouldn’t keep murdering Palestinians with impunity after the return of the hostages.
That’s not the presumption. The presumption is if the hostages are all released it vastly reduces Israeli excuses and support which would reduce civilian casualties to a level that at least is no longer existential.
They’ll just come up with new ones. Netanyahu is already talking about “finishing the job” more than about the hostages.
Israelis are literally blockading military bases to protect soldiers credibly accused of torture-raping Palestinian hostages. They may well care about the Israeli hostages, unlike the government, but they support the genocide and as a rule don’t consider Palestinians human.
Nope. There’s zero chance of that happening without a regime change and arrests of some of the key figures in the fascist Israeli government coalition. ZERO.
They are doing that because to some extent they have a sympathetic excuse: They are rescuing hostages.
Releasing all hostages is the first step to removing all (I should have spelt this out explicitly the first time) external support. It would be difficult for even far right Republicans to (adequately) justify supporting continued bombing of even proven Hamas strongholds amongst civilian population if there were no immediate justification for doing so.
Hell, if Hamas released all the hostages and flat out turned in the leaders with ICC warrants pleading with the UN for humanitarian and justice relief it would be extremely difficult for a Biden, let alone Harris government to rationalize vetoing UN intercession to stop the hostilities completely and arrest the indicted Israelis.
From my perspective, this holding on to the injustices as an excuse to unnecessarily perpetuate atrocities is just as responsible for continuing this shit show as the person pushing the launch button. At some point you have to let it go or this continues on forever, or to a grim end no decent human being wants.
The problem here is that this “if” is never going to happen. Israel has killed many of these hostages in their indiscriminate attacks against Gaza, and the bodies will never be recovered.
If you’re using this “if” as the foundation of continuing to wage war, all you have is an excuse for a forever war.
The hostages are dead. Most were probably killed by the IDF. They are an excuse to commit to a campaign of extermination.
So you simultaneously believe Hamas is negotiating in bad faith but only place blame on Israel.
The only genocide over there is commited by Israel.
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You think Palestinian lives weren’t being threatened and taken by Israeli violence before October 7?
Clearly, that is exactly what I said and isn’t a Straw Man at all
Isreal was indiscriminately bombing and taking land before October 7th, all they are just more active now. The violence will only stop if Isreal gives back all the land and gives Palestinians full autonomy. Hamas are murderous assholes, but they weren’t created in a vacuum. In fact Hamas is directly supported and funded by the IDF so the only true victims in this conflict are the Palestinians civilians and the non zionest Israelis
This is the only thing I disagree with in your statement:
Oh with no explanation as to why you think that?
For a non-exhaustive list of the ways the violence can end see my previous comments above, or consider peace can be achieved through victory as well.
Victory? Like the extermination of all Palestinian people? Cuz that’s the only way the IDF will consider victory
That, or Hamas exterminates Israel.
That’s not an true option. You can never exterminate a group of people without starting ww3
So Palestinians aren’t being genocided, or we’re in WW3?
The Nazis justified their attempt to exterminate the Jews by claiming that they were only defending themselves against Jewish plans to destroy Germany and its population.
The Israelis justify their attempts to exterminate the Palestinians by claiming that they were only defending hostages from harm, and rescuing them from their captors, while bombing Gaza so severely that many hostage bodies will never be recovered, and may have already been found unrecognizable and dumped in a mass graves by IDF soldiers following various civilian massacres taking place on a regular basis.
You understand this though. You just clearly seem to support it…
How about Israel to fuck off from Palestine so nobody’s life is taken away?