None of those things are direct propaganda tools.
To you they aren’t, but to the right wing they are.
The second they start having to put maga posters into you mailbox and nobody else’s you’ll see it differently.
We are already at risk of that. I don’t see what your point is.
is that you want to talk about removing capitalism.
I’m all for removing capitalism, but that’s not really my aim in this discussion. I was more interested in the difficulty/value of nationalizing something like a search engine.
and its parameters you won’t admit how bad nationalising a search engine is without other privately owned alternatives.
Given the popularity and successes of NASA, the USPS, NOAA, etc, I think you are being overly pessimistic.
but it’s not as bad as if it was run by Trump and co.
The U.S. isn’t a functioning democracy though, which is why that’s a problem. And just because a nationalized service is controlled democratically doesn’t mean it is controlled by a president. There are a lot of different ways to have democracy.
And we no longer live in an era of horse and buggy, so democracy can be far more direct than it has in the past.
In addition, there is already a multitude of positions filled/appointed/approved by the president. The administrator of NASA, the administrator of the EPA, etc. There is nearly 500 federal agencies like this.
So this would not be a problem unique to a nationalized search engine. So the solution is an actual democratic control of these agencies/administrators, not a wanna be dictator.
Another thing to keep in mind, what I’m proposing is something that would only ever work in an actual functioning democracy. So therefore I am not proposing this within the U.S.
Which you didn’t include, is splitting Google up
As I said, I think it is debatable if a search engine is even critical enough to warrant nationalization. I don’t think the need is there. And as I (admitted retroactively edited my comment to say), I have previously stated that I’m totally cool with breaking up Google at a bare minimum. The rest of this is just about the hypothetical of nationalization.
Split the advertising from search.
Short of publicly funding private companies, this would just result in a subscription model, which nobody wants. It’s either ads, subs, or public subsidization.
This is the surest way to make them cater to us.
It’s a half measure. The only real way to make them cater to us (aside from previously mentioned nationalization) is regulation, workplace democracy, and so on.
Even if Google got turned into a small company that only ever does search, they’ll still be a business running under capitalism, with all of the profit seeking motives that got us to where we are now.
Just because the U.S. is a joke of a democracy doesn’t mean democracy as a whole is a joke.
The idea stems from the propaganda tool that would be if it were state owned.
How is it not currently a propaganda tool? It’s owned by shareholders like blackrock and vanguard. At least with it being nationalized it’s possible to control it democratically.
Our options are:
None of these options are good, but the third is clearly the worst. The rich should not dictate what results pop up.
Other countries would seriously discourage or ban its use, but as it is useful they’d need a replacement. Hence a thousand shitty ones.
There is only ~200ish countries out there depending on how you count it. Most of them share search engines across borders, and that is unlikely to change, because if they were to see a nationalized search engine as a security problem, they would have already seen google as a security problem. So even if every third country made their own, there would only be a few dozen search engines.
But even assuming there would be 1000 search engines, 1000 shitty search engines is better than 1 shitty search engine with 85% market share. At least with the 1000 shitty engines there is competition. As of now, google is free to mess around with their black box engine however they like, showing and hiding what they like, all at the behest of blackrock, vanguard & company.
So I don’t see how this would be to everyone’s disinterest. Killing google and nationalizing it is exactly in everyone’s interest. Though like I said, the criticality of search engines and therefore the need for nationalized search engines probably isn’t there.
Not sure where you’re getting the idea that there would be thousands. But as for the shitty part, it’s already shit. Google’s search engine utterly fails at it’s job, and not just because of the rise in LLM/SEO. They waste billions on fancy new AI searches that nobody wants, they accept bribes to get pages to the top of the search, and even when you’re looking at an actual for real result, it often isn’t even what you want.
When a critical industry fails to do its job, it is time to nationalize it. With that said, the criticality of search engines is debatable. I’m cool with breaking it up at a bare minimum. The list of corps in need of getting broken up is way to long.
Another option if you have a laptop and desktop is to test the waters slowly with the laptop, and keep your desktop as is. It’s what I did for a long while to get used to things on Linux.
If there is a critical problem with my Linux instalation on my laptop, it’s OK because all the real stuff I care about is still on the desktop. So I’m free to wipe the laptop at a moments notice. It’s the easiest way to learn in my experience.
The elimination of private property and the shifting of ownership from the rich to the people doesn’t change the power required to regulate/administer anything. Either way the same amount of regulation is needed, and the same amount of administration is needed. Capitalism is just dictatorship in the workplace, and it needs to end yesterday.
To put it another way, compare two cities.
City A:
City B has the exact same population, infrastructure requirements, etc. It is basically a carbon copy of city A. However in city B the means of production is democratically controlled (and therefore owned).
Both cities have the same food requirements, the same amount of concrete needed, the same amount of everything is needed identically between them. The implementation of socialism doesn’t change the amount of political power needed to keep things running. It has however, shifted the political power away from the dictatorship of the CEOs and company board members to the vote of the people. Here in the U.S. we (on paper) wouldn’t tolerate a dictatorship in the government. So why the fuck do we tolerate it in the workplace? The workplace should be a democracy too (and not the shitty failed kind of democracy that is the U.S. government).
Parts of it, sure. But not all of it. Europe hasn’t been immune to the current rise in fascism. But there are clearly some countries in Europe that are fairing better than others.
Absolutely. But I wasn’t talking about the lore reason why they’re generally evil.
I feel like the bigger reason to have evil races is to have a more or less ever present challenge and point of conflict. For instance, the underdark is horrible place to be, in large part due to the drow. Their presence and general alignment of evil makes the setting dangerous and interesting. Is this town safe? Have the drow been messing about assassinating local leaders? Should we help this group by liberating them from slavery from the drow?
It’s almost like their species is in of itself a character, with this species sized character being evil. Having an entire species be generally evil gives the world more scale than a single evil character would. But yes, an individual villain needs more than just their evil race to be interesting.
Maybe you’re right, I don’t have any certainty in this. But I don’t buy google’s word on this for a second.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/11/tech/google-ai-lawsuit/index.html
Corpos like to lie, and their promises to not sell data is worthless. Even if they’re not outright selling data directly, or “anonymizing it” before selling it, at a bare minimum they’re still abusing the hoard of data they have to make a buck. They want that data and get large amounts of it through people’s broswers, even with adblockers installed.
They absolutely also get data through means other than their browser. But they data they get off of the browser directly is probably a shit load.
but also knowing tech these decisions were probably made by a series of mid level managers sufficiently sucking the air out of the room until a critical mass was hit to make this happen
1000%
I’m sure a bunch of bean counters were involved as well.
Not necessarily. They still get money from selling user data. So they likely still care about losing users who use adblocking to at least some degree.
One could hope that the designs get leaked and the tech becomes widely available without the corporate shitbags.
It may be worth doing more distro hoping. It sometimes takes a few to get it right for your needs/use case.
Having switched about a year ago now, I can say at least for me the switch to linux has been fairly painless. There has been bumps and snags, but it’s pretty much worked out of the box for 99% of the things I use on a daily basis. I still have my desktop dual booting for the small handful of things that aren’t compatible. But at this point, I’d suspect that I spend on average an hour a month with windows loaded.
It’s yet another tactic to delay.
Or the CIA. We all know how trigger happy they are after all.
I’m speaking from past experience here. I’ve had conversations with right wingers where I’ve brought up NASA articles about how one of their satellites is tracking climate change. And often times it’s met with “well that’s just want the government wants you to think”, or "that’s from NASA and therefore it’s propaganda.
On a more personal level, my mother is a lunatic anti-vaxer. She treats the CDC and FDA like they’re straight out of 1984. She always either ignores shit from the CDC/FDA, tries to establish them as liars/frauds, etc.
I don’t exactly go around saving screenshots of conversations with right wingers, nor do I record arguments with my mother. And none of this lends itself to being easy to track on a search engine (esp given how shitty they are nowadays. That brings us full circle lol).
So take my word for it or don’t, I don’t care.
There is risk associated with everything. You can’t have public policy without risk. You can’t have a president without risk. You can’t have a government agency without risk. So what’s your point?