Man I got downvoted to oblivion and banned from some instance for calling them terrorists just a month or so ago.
Someone claimed that “at least someone has the guts to stand up to violence” or something regarding the Israel-Gaza conflict. I said no… The Houthis are terrorists, and so is Hamas, but what Israel is doing in Gaza is also horrible.
I said the real victims are the innocent Gazan people who are trapped in a fight between two extremist sides, Israel and Hamas. Neither side has the best interest of Gaza in their minds.
I got downvoted and banned for saying that lol.
Edit: I didn’t use the word “terrorist” for Israel only because they have an official, recognized government that represents millions of people. The Houthis and Hamas groups aren’t recognized as a government that represents people. Hamas has exploited Gaza for decades, let’s not pretend as if they’re some good natured freedom fighters. If we can call the government of Israel evil for committing this genocide, then we should also hold Hamas and Houthis accountable for their evil. It’s not a black and white situation.
At this point the Israeli government are terrorists because of the genocide they are causing. But I’m now reluctant to give them that classification only because they are a body of government that represents a country. The Houthis and Hamas groups don’t really represent any country. They certainly don’t represent Gaza because they’re also exploiting them and decided to kill many innocent people, the event that started this whole war.
Unless you’re saying that Hamas is the representative of the Gazan people and so that makes all of Gaza responsible for the attack on Israel?
The two groups in power in this situation are both horrible and currently Israel is doing unforgivable acts of eradication that is only going to further the hate they get from everyone that they’re trying to destroy. But let’s not think of this as “good guys vs bad guys”. There’s no good side, both are horrible, and innocent people are paying the price.
Both of those groups do represent a sizeable portion of their respective people but both people remain fractured without getting into the distinction between a people and an officially recognized country.
Unless you’re saying that Hamas is the representative of the Gazan people and so that makes all of Gaza responsible for the attack on Israel?
Hamas is the current representation of the Palestinian armed resistance. Palestinian resistance was not always violent and was not always led by religious fundamentalists. Take your above sentence to its logical conclusion, let’s say that they are fully representative then what? Are all the Gazan civilians also terrorist supporters/sympathizers too?
My point is that designating movements that seek to overthrow regimes or fight against occupation purely as terrorists ignores actual motivations of these groups and the people they represent politically (regardless of how much public support they actually have).
You can choose to believe that Palestinians and Yemenis take up arms to spread fear and kill for the sake of their religious beliefs/hatred or because of their inherent nature or some other reasoning, or you can offer the same intellectual charity that you offer Israeli people who support current and previous regimes and acts of unimaginable brutality.
Both those groups hold horribly regressive ideologies but the reason that they exist cannot be reduced to just terrorism no matter how convenient it may be ideologically. Attacks on civilians on Oct 7 are not justified but resistance groups have a right to resist occupation with force under international law. The Houthis are the de facto authority in Yemen and despite not having international recognition are taking actions that could be justified under the obligation of signatories to the genocide convention.
You might disagree with either of these framings and rightly so as matters of international law are complex but you have to at the very least offer the same charitability in trying to analyze the underlying motivations even if the groups representing these actions are reprehensible.
Heh, rookie mistake. Expressing nuance beyond this ‘good’ that ‘bad’ on Lemmy is unforgivable. You should know that there are only binary ways of looking at the world. /s
Since we are talking about nuance, let me add a bit more. Hamas is different from the bulk of the Palestinian population, and Netanyahu’s right wing coalition is different from the bulk of the Israeli people. Let’s not forget that the Oct 7 massacre happened to a bunch of innocent people attending a music festival. Netanyahu is not popular in Israel. Therefore, let’s not say simply that Israel is bad. I see way too many upvoted “fuck Israel” comments on Lemmy. Just as it is appropriate to consider Hamas separately from the rest of the Palestinians, so it is with Netanyahu and the rest of Israelis.
Man I got downvoted to oblivion and banned from some instance for calling them terrorists just a month or so ago.
Someone claimed that “at least someone has the guts to stand up to violence” or something regarding the Israel-Gaza conflict. I said no… The Houthis are terrorists, and so is Hamas, but what Israel is doing in Gaza is also horrible.
I said the real victims are the innocent Gazan people who are trapped in a fight between two extremist sides, Israel and Hamas. Neither side has the best interest of Gaza in their minds.
I got downvoted and banned for saying that lol.
Edit: I didn’t use the word “terrorist” for Israel only because they have an official, recognized government that represents millions of people. The Houthis and Hamas groups aren’t recognized as a government that represents people. Hamas has exploited Gaza for decades, let’s not pretend as if they’re some good natured freedom fighters. If we can call the government of Israel evil for committing this genocide, then we should also hold Hamas and Houthis accountable for their evil. It’s not a black and white situation.
Funny how Israelis don’t get the same terrorist designation. Two are terrorists and the other is “horrible”.
At this point the Israeli government are terrorists because of the genocide they are causing. But I’m now reluctant to give them that classification only because they are a body of government that represents a country. The Houthis and Hamas groups don’t really represent any country. They certainly don’t represent Gaza because they’re also exploiting them and decided to kill many innocent people, the event that started this whole war.
Unless you’re saying that Hamas is the representative of the Gazan people and so that makes all of Gaza responsible for the attack on Israel?
The two groups in power in this situation are both horrible and currently Israel is doing unforgivable acts of eradication that is only going to further the hate they get from everyone that they’re trying to destroy. But let’s not think of this as “good guys vs bad guys”. There’s no good side, both are horrible, and innocent people are paying the price.
Both of those groups do represent a sizeable portion of their respective people but both people remain fractured without getting into the distinction between a people and an officially recognized country.
Hamas is the current representation of the Palestinian armed resistance. Palestinian resistance was not always violent and was not always led by religious fundamentalists. Take your above sentence to its logical conclusion, let’s say that they are fully representative then what? Are all the Gazan civilians also terrorist supporters/sympathizers too?
My point is that designating movements that seek to overthrow regimes or fight against occupation purely as terrorists ignores actual motivations of these groups and the people they represent politically (regardless of how much public support they actually have).
You can choose to believe that Palestinians and Yemenis take up arms to spread fear and kill for the sake of their religious beliefs/hatred or because of their inherent nature or some other reasoning, or you can offer the same intellectual charity that you offer Israeli people who support current and previous regimes and acts of unimaginable brutality.
Both those groups hold horribly regressive ideologies but the reason that they exist cannot be reduced to just terrorism no matter how convenient it may be ideologically. Attacks on civilians on Oct 7 are not justified but resistance groups have a right to resist occupation with force under international law. The Houthis are the de facto authority in Yemen and despite not having international recognition are taking actions that could be justified under the obligation of signatories to the genocide convention.
You might disagree with either of these framings and rightly so as matters of international law are complex but you have to at the very least offer the same charitability in trying to analyze the underlying motivations even if the groups representing these actions are reprehensible.
Heh, rookie mistake. Expressing nuance beyond this ‘good’ that ‘bad’ on Lemmy is unforgivable. You should know that there are only binary ways of looking at the world. /s
So far left they ended up back on the right
Since we are talking about nuance, let me add a bit more. Hamas is different from the bulk of the Palestinian population, and Netanyahu’s right wing coalition is different from the bulk of the Israeli people. Let’s not forget that the Oct 7 massacre happened to a bunch of innocent people attending a music festival. Netanyahu is not popular in Israel. Therefore, let’s not say simply that Israel is bad. I see way too many upvoted “fuck Israel” comments on Lemmy. Just as it is appropriate to consider Hamas separately from the rest of the Palestinians, so it is with Netanyahu and the rest of Israelis.
This is accurate, I agree. I should’ve worded my statement better.
It was probably Lemmy.ml since LW is already defederated from the other tankie instances
Have seen quite a bit of this on here, it’s pretty wild.