• MeanEYE@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Might is the key word. I honestly doubt it will be like in the old days where you just pop the lid and put a new one. EU requires replaceable battery by the end user but it doesn’t state how simply that can be done. Am expecting to see something like few screws at the bottom of the phone and stuff like that. But even that will be awesome.

    • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      People misunderstand this rule.

      It’s not about popping batteries out, but instead about making them more easily replaceable (so no gluing them in place kinda thing)

      But even then it only applies if the battery degrades by more than a certain amount over the course of 2 years. If it doesn’t, or if it’s over a certain capacity, they don’t need to do anything different.

      • tlf@feddit.de
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        7 months ago

        Yeah, the spirit of the idea is much better than it’s implementation

  • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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    7 months ago

    That’s actually making a comeback because the EU got pissed.

    My phone’s brand new and it has a removable battery, not even in the EU

    • fat_stig@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I think it is because the EU listened to the people. This is what you get when elected representatives are not bankrolled by big business, and are allowed to enact legislation that doesn’t only benefit one side.

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        7 months ago

        The EU has politicians that manage to legislate against the interests of gigantic tech corporations because European tech corporations are far smaller, and thus have much less leverage. Even if the US political system was significantly less corrupt, they’d probably still have issues to legislate against them.

  • tslnox@reddthat.com
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    7 months ago

    The only valid reason is waterproofing. If the phone isn’t waterproof, it’s only to limit repairability… Also one factor in that was, I believe, the thinness war, but that’s pretty much over now as they all got to the practical limit I guess.

    • KrokanteBamischijf@feddit.nl
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      7 months ago

      Unfortunately we still see too many people push the “but my IP rating” narrative without realising that engineers are perfectly able to design gaskets for all kinds of applications.

      Some phones with removable batteries even had them and were (to a certain degree) waterproof.

      The ONLY reason phones are no longer servicable is profits. Why extend a product’s lifespan if you can just frustrate the consumer to the point where they will just buy another one?

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        7 months ago

        I want to know what all these people are doing with their phones… I’ve needed a phone to be waterproof exactly one time. 20 years ago when I got chucked into a pool with my flip phone in my pocket. I’ve had about a dozen batteries stop charging properly and needed replacement since then.

        • KrokanteBamischijf@feddit.nl
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          7 months ago

          I have this habit where I try to squeeze every bit of use out of a device until something forces me to get a new one.

          My latest two phones have both lasted for 7 years, and I’m still not planning on upgrading until someting breaks.

          In all those years I have never encountered a situation where I would have benefited from my phone being more waterproof than just basic ingress protection. Higher IP ratings are only helpful for those who don’t want to be conscious of their possessions and want insurance in case of accidents instead of preventing the situations outright.

          If we truly want to reduce our impact on the use of natural resources, we should start with eradicating the mindset that things being disposable is somehow fine.

        • KrokanteBamischijf@feddit.nl
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          7 months ago

          Nuclear powered- or nuclear capable submarines? Though I guess in nuclear powered submarines the “batteries” are actively unglueing themselves, which is what powers them in the first place.

          Fission power in phones when?

          • uis@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Nuclear powered- or nuclear capable submarines?

            Both?..

            in nuclear powered submarines the “batteries” are actively unglueing themselves

            Fair enough. But I was thinking about other batteries in case something happems to “batteries”.

    • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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      I’m not even sure thinness was something consumers ever would have demanded (at the sacrifice of battery life) if the mfrs hadn’t pushed it as a selling point.

      In the flipphone days I didn’t know many people who didn’t have at least one spare battery, so they could swap to a fresh one on the go without having to charge, or bought extra thick batteries with higher capacity, extending the back of the phone.

      Then when smartphones had removable batteries, lots of people still did those things. And all during that time I remember many reviewers and consumers reacting to many of the “thinness” claims with “I’d really like a bigger battery instead.”

      I also remember it being proven that apple’s removal of the headphone jack impacted neither waterproofing nor thinness, despite their claims. (But then of course one by one others started following suit.)

      I think it’s better for mfrs and that’s the only reason. It saves them money on mfr, or gets phones tossed in the bin faster. Possibly both.

      I’d still take 2 or 3 more mm of thickness for an amazing battery.

      • renzev@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        I’m not even sure thinness was something consumers ever would have demanded

        I am entirely convinced that most “features” on modern devices are not “something consumers would have demanded”. Sure, different lenses is nice if you’re a hobbyist photographer, but do most people really need more than a single back-facing camera? Do most people want to have wireless earbuds at the cost of not having a headphone jack? Do most people want glass backs and other such gimmicks that make their device more fragile? I’ve been told for decades that the modern economic system is great because competition forces manufacturers to prioritize what is best for the consumers. But in the context of smartphones, it feels like the roles are completely reversed. Manufacturers come up with some bullshit and then mount psy-ops (ad campaigns, online astroturfing) to convince the population that it’s worth their money

      • unrelatedkeg@lemmy.sdf.org
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        7 months ago

        About thinness: I also like my phones bendy and snappy (iPhone 6), as well as exploding batteries (Galaxy Note 7 or 10, I don’t remember the exact model tbh).

        Or you have to ‘hold it right’ (OG iPhone).

        These were all huge issues that could be fixed without sacrificing the thinness.

        Thinness shouldn’t be used as an excuse for otherwise shitty phones, since it’s clearly a non-sequitur.

      • Mnemnosyne@lemmynsfw.com
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        7 months ago

        Well, there’s another change that made it more viable - back then people had spare batteries cause they needed them. Now most devices will last a full day of normal use, so the ‘average user’ doesn’t care much about swapping batteries.

        My gripe was physical keyboards. Until they basically disappeared entirely, I tried to buy exclusively devices with physical keyboards. I liked my T-Mobile Sidekick except it could stand to be thinner.

        • stoly@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Yes, I don’t care how good Swype/etc is, I’m still much faster and more accurate on a physical keyboard.

      • lunarul@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        I’m not even sure thinness was something consumers ever would have demanded

        Something popular back in the removable battery days was to replace them with thicker extended capacity batteries. So no, battery life was more important to a lot of comsumers.

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      7 months ago

      My casio watch is waterproof. [100M Water Resistant] And it has a user replacable battery. With a gasket inside and cool looking screws. (yes, I consider screws to be cool) Also, it costs less than $20

      • KISSmyOS@feddit.de
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        7 months ago

        Your Casio watch also has a manual with a warning inside saying it won’t be waterproof anymore after a battery replacement unless you send it in to Casio to replace the battery.

        • ulterno@lemmy.kde.social
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          • Casio watch warranty period: 24 months

          • Casio watch advertised battery lifetime: 10 years

          • My Casio watch actual battery lifetime: 5 years

          • I didn’t have to open it until 2x the time of official warranty.

          • The gasket had gunk in it on the outer side, so I cleaned it, but I could have gotten a replacement from one of the local Casio stores.

          • The strap has broken 2 times until now (yeah, I’m kinda rough on it) and replacing that doesn’t void any warranty.

            • The standardised nature means, I can get either Casio branded straps (even from other models if my model is discontinued) or other generic straps.
          • I am nearing the point at which it might require another battery change, but either way it’s worked pretty well.

          • I take hot water baths with it and even though I never used it up-to 100m (I’m not really into diving), I haven’t seen rust or moisture in the inside.

          • Of course, if you open the stuff and change something yourself, it’s up to you to warranty it. You can’t expect them to trust every tom, dick and harry who might:

            1. Not tighten the screws well enough
            2. Not place the gasket back in place
            3. Do any other random stuff

          and officially say that they will cover that. I know I wouldn’t.

          The point is, they let you do what you want and help you at a reasonable price (the replacement straps were priced appropriately).

          I can’t say the same for the fancier models though.

      • aberrate_junior_beatnik@midwest.social
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        7 months ago

        Screws are an incredible wonder. Itty bits of metal with fine threading to attach two things? And we just produce like billions of the things? Truly amazing.

        • ulterno@lemmy.kde.social
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          7 months ago

          I’d love to have a phone with 8 screws and a gasket in the back cover instead of the fixed plastic latches that the Fairphone and others have. Easily more water tolerant and love the industrial feel.

    • Alex@feddit.ro
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      7 months ago

      You can have ip68 removable battery phones. Check out samsung xcover

      • SkiDude@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        You can, but every hardware feature you add takes physical space in the phone. Making a phone waterproof requires adding stuff to the phone, which takes away space for other things. Usually battery size ends up being one of the things that takes a hit. You want a phone that’s waterproof and has a removable battery? Then the battery size gets reduced by X%, or some other features people care about get dropped.

        • Alex@feddit.ro
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          7 months ago

          Ffs make it thicker. Most phones are already too tall to fit in most pkckets, and the added thickness would make them more comfy to hold

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    7 months ago

    Take away user choice, use really bad excuses like water proofing and space saving, and you can be sure consumers will iteratively buy more frequently and spend more for cloud services.

    Bye battery Bye bye headphone jack Bye bye user expandable storage.

    Capitalism has steered us to this as the preferable product.

    • platypus_plumba@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      It really sucks that they charge so much money for the storage difference. Why are the pricing tiers based on the storage? It’s so strange.

      Anyways, I recall having a lot of issues with external storage in the past. Like Android just didn’t integrate that shit properly. It was kinda painful having the phone data and photos in separate places. Don’t remember specifics, I just know I constantly wished they were a single location.

    • Buffaloaf@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I blame Apple. They slowly got rid of features and still sold a shit ton of phones. This is obviously more profitable so other companies followed.

    • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I ended up buying a Motorola razr because at least the fucking thing fits in my pocket for once. That’s honestly the biggest tangible benefit I’ve gotten out of a phone purchase in a while.

      Each iteration of phone seems more like something I don’t want to even be involved with. Maybe I’ll just buy a light phone next time.

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        7 months ago

        I remember when I could do everything with my phone using a single hand. I never grabbed my phone with two hands. Now I need two hands much more than before.

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          I don’t know why phablets are a thing. Phones are too big imo.

          I had a Motorola g power from 2020? I think? That’s about the right size. I actually wish they could make a usable phone that’s about the size of the bottom half of this one I’m using right now, but it would take some UI innovation which nobody is interested in. It’s funny too because the bigger flagship phones are more expensive, but I’d never pay for that.

          • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
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            7 months ago

            You might be interested in the unique looking designs on https://www.unihertz.com/ .

            They’ve got some really tiny ones and some with physical keyboards even. I like the designs but dunno about their update commitment or hardware specs much.

            • Pantoffel@feddit.de
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              7 months ago

              This sounds almost perfect. I’m missing the option to install a custom ROM or as you said specs on support.

              • apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                Installing custom ROMs on devices is still way too difficult. Recently tried to install divestOS on an old Oneplus phone and it is currently in brick hell. I followed the instructions. Unlocking is easy, rooting is still a massive PITA.

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      So you’re telling me that capitalism works, and that it’s working as intended.

      I agree that this is a result of capitalism. But I would surmise that this is exactly the standard by which capitalism is based. Reduce complexity, reduce operating costs. That generally means that whatever you’re making is going to be generic with no customizability and no ability to be repaired or changed by the end user. Complete vertical integration with optimizations in productivity, materials cost, and other operating expenses, all while charging “as much as the market will bear”

  • FrankTheHealer@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    My Fairphone 3 still has a removable battery. I replaced the battery myself last year. It took me 10 seconds once it arrived.

      • theonyltruemupf@feddit.de
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        7 months ago

        Fairphone 3 still has the headphone jack, it was removed with Fairphone 4. Still worth it because you can swap out any component with a single screw driver within minutes and you get years of updates. Also while not perfect, they make an effort to source their materials as ethically as possible and pay the factory workers a living wage.

        • potustheplant@feddit.nl
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          7 months ago

          You make it sound like they had to remove the headphone jack to have the other stuff. They didn’t. They just wanted to push users to buy their very not environmentally friendly wireless headphones/earbuds.

          • renzev@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            As a f*irphone user, I feel so perplexed about this. On one hand, they do all these awesome things like unlocking the bootloader, repairability, opensourcing the schematics, etc. But on the other, they do this predatory garbage to get you to buy their shitty headphones. Just goes to show that companies are never your friends, not even “ethical” ones.

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        7 months ago

        You really still use wired headphones? I can’t remember the last time I used mine. My phone and laptop still have the jack but I hate them. Catch on everything, having to keep the device by me at all times (which I don’t always have pockets for), God forbid I forget I have em in and go to move around, get em yanked out of my ears or send the phone flying. I mean I get it if the wireless ones die, but even then, I’d rather wait for them to charge.

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          And some of us just want to plug it in and not worry about it. If you want me to fully support wireless then I need a protocol that doesn’t randomly skip and robot.

        • renzev@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          You’re missing the point. It’s not about whether you like to use wired headphones or not, it’s about giving the user the choice to use them or not. Wired headphones are more sustainable, because they require less components, and don’t have batteries that degrade over time (and require slave labour to produce). So a company that brands itself as sustainable and ethical should absolutely include a headphone jack.

        • potustheplant@feddit.nl
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          7 months ago

          Catch on everything, having to keep the device by me at all times (which I don’t always have pockets for), God forbid I forget I have em in and go to move around, get em yanked out of my ears or send the phone flying.

          You’d be perfect for an infomercial.

          I’d rather wait for them to charge

          Godd luck doing that when the battery can no longer hold a charge.

          • HACKthePRISONS@kolektiva.social
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            7 months ago

            I was very resistant to getting a smartphone. I think my first Android was the blackberry q20. then a Samsung A10? I resisted touchscreens. I wanted physical ports and memory expansion and buttons.

            and while I still hate touchscreens, I learned to like Bluetooth headphones. specifically, the Anker a3212.

            maybe you would like them, too.

            I also previously really liked the besign sh03 headphones, and I’m now lusting after the Sony wi-1000xm2

            • potustheplant@feddit.nl
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              7 months ago

              I don’t “dislike” bluetooth headphones. They certainly are more convenient and I used them for things like going to the gym, commuting, vacuuming, etc. The problem is when that’s your only option for no good reason. There’s absolutely no excuse for omitting the headphone jack. Strange Parts on YT even added it to an iPhone that didn’t have it and it works just fine so no, it’s not a space problem and it would also not prevent the phone from being water resistant.

              I like my Sony WF-1000XM4s but they don’t sound as balanced as my Moondrop Aria or AKG K361 and they certainly aren’t as durable.

              • HACKthePRISONS@kolektiva.social
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                7 months ago

                i have not been able to justify any true wireless headphones at all. three loose parts, three batteries, so many failure points. it’s like the problem you’re explaining on steroids.

                • potustheplant@feddit.nl
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                  7 months ago

                  For walking (especially in winter) and going to the gym, they’re very practical. But yeah, you can’t get too attached. My earbuds in particular have a design flaw and Sony’s replaced them 4 times already.

  • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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    7 months ago

    Integrating the battery saves a small amount of space and weight. That makes the phone very slightly thinner and lighter, which is what most people seem to prefer. Same with not having expandable memory. IMO it’s a bad tradeoff, but I still miss physical keyboards.

    • Benaaasaaas@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      The stupid part is that they will buy phone cause it’s 0.1mm thinner and then slap on 3mm phone case on top.

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        7 months ago

        Don’t think anyone has actually bought a phone for the thinness since like, 2016, but also a case isn’t a decision of thinness. The people who use their phones without a case continue to do so because they like the look and feel, and those who use a case for protection will want it regardless of whether the phone is 5mm thicker.

      • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        I’ve got an Otterbox Defender on my phone. It’s the only reason my phone is still operational.

        I still want a user-replaceable battery though.

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      I never met anyone that said they wanted a thinner lighter phone.

      I’ve met tons of people that would take a half inch thick brick of a phone if it came with an equally big battery that could last days between charges.

      • Rodeo@lemmy.ca
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        7 months ago

        Go on Amazon and search for a “outdoors phone”. I have one that is about that size and weighs a lot, but I can go a week between charges easily. I can play games with my headphones for 8 hours straight without needing to charge.

        But … The battery is not replaceable.

      • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        That’s genuinely one of the things people look for; iPhones are incredibly dense designs, in a very sleek, smooth, light package, and people love them. A very basic phone case and a screen saver adds nearly half the OE thickness of the phone to the package, and look how many people forgo those, even on a phone that’s $1500. If I added that much thickness to a phone that started out at .5" thick, it would end up feeling like I was carrying a brick on my pocket all the time.

        I would still take the brick with replaceable battery though.

        • A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          apple idiots buy whatever apple tells them to because they care more about the artificial status symbol of having the latest apple logo’d bullshit than they care about having a good or decent product.

          • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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            7 months ago

            Yeah, no. I’m an Android user, and have been for about a decade, but Apple makes good products. I think that Apple is overpriced, I don’t like their walled garden, but they’re still good. My wife had an iPhone 8 up until this year, and I’d gone through multiple Samsung and other phones in the same time period that all died due to hardware failures.

            • A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              I wasnt saying you were, I was saying in general.

              Samsungs phones fell off a cliff after the 9, imho. I would never buy another samsung.

              Apple artificially destroying batteries to make you buy more phones, sooner, should have been the nail in the coffin of that company if people actually cared about the products and not the artificial status symbol.

      • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        Yeah, but that’s not neatly as portable as the old Crackberries that had slide-out keyboards.

        • volvoxvsmarla @lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          Oh I feel you. I loved them too. The only reason why I had to switch (back when a physical keyboard was still kind of an option) was because I started to type in cyrillic too, and - especially as a newbie who isn’t familiar with the keyboard’s layout - a digital one was much easier to use. But I still hate that feeling of typing on my screen.

          • MeanEYE@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Am not convinced there are many who honestly enjoy typing on screen. It’s never great, just passable.

            • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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              7 months ago

              Definitely. I think the only people that like them are the people designing the phones, because they don’t have to worry about smaller/lighter/more durable keyboards.

              I had to give up my final phone with a physical keyboard because some of the keys stopped working, and there was no way to get an identical replacement anymore.

              • MeanEYE@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                I so wanted Blackberry Key3 to come out and was holding out for that one, then they canceled their phone production entirely. Old Blackberry Passport was such a good design for my use case. Sadly outdated software meant I was unable to use it as my daily driver.

  • covert_czar@lemmy.ml
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    7 months ago

    No headphone jack
    No memory card slot
    No ir blaster

    Why are they making it a useless device??

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        There’s a spectrum. On one end you have people who pay zero attention to features and just buy whatever is “hot” or whatever is the latest iPhone. On the other is your “get off my lawn” types, still clinging to an LG V20 or maybe paying a ridiculous price for a Sony phone that has what should be basic features.

        I think most of us fall towards the latter end. We hold out as long as we can but when these basic features are removed from 95% of the market your choices get real fuckin’ slim, real fast. And ultimately things like security updates, competitive pricing and functional batteries get the better of us.

    • zeekaran@sopuli.xyz
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      7 months ago

      IR blasters are fine, so few TVs even use them now. Storage, eh, 512 is default these days and I’m only using 25% of that (assuming you meant storage and not memory).

      Headphone jacks and replaceable batteries are huge though. I’m still pissed about that.

  • smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de
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    7 months ago

    Computers were not stopping you from running any software you want, until they got small enough for people to forget they are still computers.

  • DLSantini@lemmy.ml
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    7 months ago

    Some still do. I just started working at Walmart, and they give you a Samsung phone to do your job. You use the camera for scanning tags, shelving, check item status, and a bunch of other shit. It’s a modern phone, with USB c, fingerprint sensor in the power button, android 13, stupid hole-punch camera, etc. And when I pulled off the otterbox case they gave me with it, I found that the back pulls off and the battery pops out, like all of my phones used to do back in the day. I assume that’s so they can more easily keep these phones in use, as they can pull out a failing battery and pop a new one in without having to send the phone sent off for servicing.

    • toynbee@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Likely being provided to a business rather than a consumer means that there’s incentive to make a product with what the purchaser wants.

    • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Also so that phones require more frequent replacement. Usually the battery goes first. It doesn’t hold a charge or undervolts and slows down the phone. They want you to buy a new phone every two years.

  • Bismuth@lemmy.cafe
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    7 months ago

    I remember when my mom had a phone with a removable battery, she would drop it a lot and it would separate into a gazillion components but it wouldn’t break. I miss the days

    • Shard@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I feel like the parts separating had a lot to do with saving the phone as a whole. It must be absorbing and dissipating some of that energy from the fall rather than all that energy being directed into the phone when it stays together.

      I remember my old phones would fly apart from a fall but they’d never suffer any meaningful damage.

      • hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        7 months ago

        Also the phones were all plastic, soft and bouncy.

        Compare that to a new glass box with a metal frame

        • Bismuth@lemmy.cafe
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          7 months ago

          Yeah, I think that combined with the explodey factor really saved a lot of my mom’s phones back in the day. In the absolute worst case scenario, there’d maybe be a bit of the corner gouged out if she dropped it on the road or something, but that kind of damage doesn’t spread and you don’t end up with glass shards in your finger if you try to use the phone anyway. Now I’ve gotta practically wrap the thing in bubble wrap to keep it working if it drops

    • The EU, despite (valid) criticisms and pravacy mis-steps, is right now the only large, powerful organization fighting for consumer rights. I wish I, as an American, could support them, because the laws the EU is passing benefit me as well.

      Go EU, indeed!